Quantcast

bad sectors with Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
7 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

bad sectors with Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series

Xavier Chantry
I have two external usb hard drive 500gb, which looked different from outside.
One is labelled Seagate Portable External Hard drive and was bought
last December.
The other is a Iomega Prestige Portable and was bought early january,
that one came with a double usb cable.

The first indication of failures were the Iomega one that started to
make some weird noise, and later Gnome SMART tool reported it as
deficient because of many bad sectors.
Some days and a full format later, the disk has more than 300
reallocated sectors but at least none pending :
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   084   084   036    Pre-fail
Always       -       343
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age
Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age
Offline      -       0

In parallel I started to check the other Seagate disk, and this one
turned to have many bad sectors as well :
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   096   096   036    Pre-fail
Always       -       89
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age
Always       -       86
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age
Offline      -       86

It turns out these two external drives have exactly the same model inside :
Model Family:     Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series
Device Model:     ST9500325AS
Firmware Version: 0002BSM1

So now all my questions :
1) Can a lack of power cause bad sectors (instead of the disk simply
refusing to work) ?
>From http://www.harddiskhome.com/hard-disk-bad-sectors.html :
"It could even be bad power from the power supply. "
"The major reasons for the development of bad sector on hard drive is
due to improper shutdown and voltage fluctuations which may be the
general cause for the bad sectors."

Does the double usb cable shipped with the Iomega indicate that this
disk needs more power than the average ?
This laptop often has many usb devices plugged and has very few usb port.
So not only was just one usb connector plugged for each disk, but it
was also often plugged through a usb hub (if that's the correct term).

2) Is it still likely that this device model and/or firmware version
is bad , despite point 1) ?

3) Coud/Should I still try to get these two disks replaced , as they
are only 2-3 months old, but have 2-3 years warranty ?

Since the iomega drive was formatted and all its bad sectors
reallocated, the Seatools windows tool does not report anything bad.
It can only see that the short and long test pass. It does not seem to
care about the high number of Reallocated_Sector or provide any way to
even display it.
The Seagate Drive instantly fails with short test, but I suspect a
full format would also fix that. Is this what the technical support
should expect me to do ?

4) What is a high number of bad / reallocated sectors where one should
start worrying ?
And doesn't any hard disk vendor mention this point in their warranty ?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval
Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
_______________________________________________
Smartmontools-support mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support

iomega.log (12K) Download Attachment
seagate.log (13K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Fwd: bad sectors with Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series

Xavier Chantry
it might work better after subscribing.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Xavier Chantry <[hidden email]>
Date: Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 3:24 PM
Subject: bad sectors with Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series
To: [hidden email]


I have two external usb hard drive 500gb, which looked different from outside.
One is labelled Seagate Portable External Hard drive and was bought
last December.
The other is a Iomega Prestige Portable and was bought early january,
that one came with a double usb cable.

The first indication of failures were the Iomega one that started to
make some weird noise, and later Gnome SMART tool reported it as
deficient because of many bad sectors.
Some days and a full format later, the disk has more than 300
reallocated sectors but at least none pending :
 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   084   084   036    Pre-fail
Always       -       343
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age
Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age
Offline      -       0

In parallel I started to check the other Seagate disk, and this one
turned to have many bad sectors as well :
 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   096   096   036    Pre-fail
Always       -       89
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age
Always       -       86
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age
Offline      -       86

It turns out these two external drives have exactly the same model inside :
Model Family:     Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series
Device Model:     ST9500325AS
Firmware Version: 0002BSM1

So now all my questions :
1) Can a lack of power cause bad sectors (instead of the disk simply
refusing to work) ?
>From http://www.harddiskhome.com/hard-disk-bad-sectors.html :
"It could even be bad power from the power supply. "
"The major reasons for the development of bad sector on hard drive is
due to improper shutdown and voltage fluctuations which may be the
general cause for the bad sectors."

Does the double usb cable shipped with the Iomega indicate that this
disk needs more power than the average ?
This laptop often has many usb devices plugged and has very few usb port.
So not only was just one usb connector plugged for each disk, but it
was also often plugged through a usb hub (if that's the correct term).

2) Is it still likely that this device model and/or firmware version
is bad , despite point 1) ?

3) Coud/Should I still try to get these two disks replaced , as they
are only 2-3 months old, but have 2-3 years warranty ?

Since the iomega drive was formatted and all its bad sectors
reallocated, the Seatools windows tool does not report anything bad.
It can only see that the short and long test pass. It does not seem to
care about the high number of Reallocated_Sector or provide any way to
even display it.
The Seagate Drive instantly fails with short test, but I suspect a
full format would also fix that. Is this what the technical support
should expect me to do ?

4) What is a high number of bad / reallocated sectors where one should
start worrying ?
And doesn't any hard disk vendor mention this point in their warranty ?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Download Intel&#174; Parallel Studio Eval
Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
_______________________________________________
Smartmontools-support mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support

iomega.log (12K) Download Attachment
seagate.log (13K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: bad sectors with Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series

Marti Raudsepp
In reply to this post by Xavier Chantry
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Xavier Chantry <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So now all my questions :
> 1) Can a lack of power cause bad sectors (instead of the disk simply
> refusing to work) ?

Yes, in theory. I have heard from other sources that when a drive
loses power in the middle of a write, it can create bad sectors
despite the sectors still being physically OK.

I've also seen some USB drives that repeatedly try to spin-up, but
fail due to insufficient power. The USB hub is a suspect here.

But a standard USB cable straight from your laptop should be enough to
power 2.5" 5400RPM drives.

> 3) Coud/Should I still try to get these two disks replaced , as they
> are only 2-3 months old, but have 2-3 years warranty ?

> The Seagate Drive instantly fails with short test, but I suspect a
> full format would also fix that. Is this what the technical support
> should expect me to do ?

According to some Seagate support staff, their SMART attribute values
are "encrypted" (yeah right!) and not enough to get a replacement
drive.

However, they do replace drives when the one of the SMART tests fail
(the same tests that SeaTools will run).

> 4) What is a high number of bad / reallocated sectors where one should
> start worrying ?

You should be worried if the value is consistently increasing. All
drives where I have seen over 100 reallocated sectors have failed
pretty soon afterwards. It helps to run SMART tests often.

Regards,
Marti

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Download Intel&#174; Parallel Studio Eval
Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
_______________________________________________
Smartmontools-support mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: bad sectors with Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series

Franc Zabkar
In reply to this post by Xavier Chantry
I would think that power fluctuations could cause a write operation
to be inhibited mid-stream. This would result in an unreadable sector
which would then be marked as pending reallocation. However, on the
next write, the sector would be retested and returned to service. The
same could occur if the drive's shock sensor detects an excessive vibration.

I would try to have both drives replaced under warranty, especially
if the bad sector count increases regularly. As for your question
regarding the number of allowable bad sectors, if you examine the
SMART report, you will see that one drive's normalised attribute is
already at 84, which means it has lost 16 points after developing 343
defects. It has another 48 points to go before it hits the threshold
of 36. This means that SMART allows for a total of around 343 / 16 x
64 = 1372 reallocations before the drive is deemed to have failed.

5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   084   084   036  343

A standard USB port is current limited to 500mA. A Seagate
ST9500325AS drive requires about 850mA during spinup, and about 400mA
thereafter (see page 11 of manual, page 17 of PDF). A Y-cable is
therefore sometimes necessary to pick up power from two USB ports. If
you need to use a USB hub, an externally powered one would be
preferred to a port powered type.

Momentus 5400.6 SATA Product Manual, Rev. E:
http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/notebook/momentus/5400.6%20(Wyatt)/100528359e.pdf

I believe your Firmware Version, 0002BSM1, is responsible for an
excessive number of load/unload cycles. The associated clicking
annoys many people. There is a Dell firmware update that fixes this
behaviour, but it can't be applied via USB.

-Franc Zabkar


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Download Intel&#174; Parallel Studio Eval
Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
_______________________________________________
Smartmontools-support mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: bad sectors with Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series

Xavier Chantry
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:23 AM, Franc Zabkar <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would think that power fluctuations could cause a write operation
> to be inhibited mid-stream. This would result in an unreadable sector
> which would then be marked as pending reallocation. However, on the
> next write, the sector would be retested and returned to service. The
> same could occur if the drive's shock sensor detects an excessive vibration.
>
> I would try to have both drives replaced under warranty, especially
> if the bad sector count increases regularly. As for your question
> regarding the number of allowable bad sectors, if you examine the
> SMART report, you will see that one drive's normalised attribute is
> already at 84, which means it has lost 16 points after developing 343
> defects. It has another 48 points to go before it hits the threshold
> of 36. This means that SMART allows for a total of around 343 / 16 x
> 64 = 1372 reallocations before the drive is deemed to have failed.
>
> 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   084   084   036  343
>
> A standard USB port is current limited to 500mA. A Seagate
> ST9500325AS drive requires about 850mA during spinup, and about 400mA
> thereafter (see page 11 of manual, page 17 of PDF). A Y-cable is
> therefore sometimes necessary to pick up power from two USB ports. If
> you need to use a USB hub, an externally powered one would be
> preferred to a port powered type.
>
> Momentus 5400.6 SATA Product Manual, Rev. E:
> http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/notebook/momentus/5400.6%20(Wyatt)/100528359e.pdf
>
> I believe your Firmware Version, 0002BSM1, is responsible for an
> excessive number of load/unload cycles. The associated clicking
> annoys many people. There is a Dell firmware update that fixes this
> behaviour, but it can't be applied via USB.
>
> -Franc Zabkar
>
>

I saw Marti's answer, but I somehow managed to miss the very
informative one from Franc.
Thanks a lot to both of you for all these very interesting details.

I actually could get both drivers replaced easily by contacting
directly the hardware vendors (seagate and iomega) rather than the
resellers.
For seagate, I just mentioned that Seatools reported the drive as
failing, and they accepted the replacement right away.
For iomega, I showed the number of bad sectors and reallocated
sectors, and that was enough.

In both cases it went quite fast, and I would have received the two
drives 3 weeks ago if I was there to receive them :)

The seagate drive came with a single usb cable.
The interesting part is that I cannot see anything about the seagate
drive, smartctl just fails with :

[xavier@xps-m1530 ~]$ smartctl -a -d scsi /dev/sdb
smartctl 5.39.1 2010-01-28 r3054 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

Device: Seagate  Portable         Version: 0130
scsiModePageOffset: response length too short, resp_len=4 offset=4 bd_len=0
>> Terminate command early due to bad response to IEC mode page
A mandatory SMART command failed: exiting. To continue, add one or
more '-T permissive' options.

[xavier@xps-m1530 ~]$ smartctl -a -d scsi /dev/sdb -T permissive
smartctl 5.39.1 2010-01-28 r3054 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

Device: Seagate  Portable         Version: 0130
scsiModePageOffset: response length too short, resp_len=4 offset=4 bd_len=0
>> Terminate command early due to bad response to IEC mode page

Error Counter logging not supported
scsiModePageOffset: response length too short, resp_len=4 offset=4 bd_len=0
Device does not support Self Test logging

So I have no idea what device model / firmware version it is.

The Iomega came with no cable, I probably did the mistake to return
the original Y one.
On the disk, there is the following message :
"This is a re-manufactured product. some of the components may have
been replaced and/or repaired. This Product meets Iomega's quality
Assurance standards."

And that device reports it does not support SMART :

[xavier@xps-m1530 ~]$ smartctl -a -d scsi /dev/sdb
smartctl 5.39.1 2010-01-28 r3054 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

Device: ST950032 5AS              Version:
Serial number: 801130168383
Device type: disk
Local Time is: Mon Apr 12 13:26:14 2010 CEST
Device does not support SMART

Error Counter logging not supported
Device does not support Self Test logging


So at least I can see that the iomega is still the same device model.

The only status information I can see from both disks is SMART Health Status: OK
Hopefully this time we won't have any data corruption/loss. I already
told the user to completely stop using a hub for these usb powered
drives.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Download Intel&#174; Parallel Studio Eval
Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
_______________________________________________
Smartmontools-support mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: bad sectors with Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series

Franc Zabkar
Does this help?

What chipset does the bridge card use in my Seagate external hard
drive? [206671]:
http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=206671&NewLang=en

Regards,
Franc


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Download Intel&#174; Parallel Studio Eval
Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
_______________________________________________
Smartmontools-support mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: bad sectors with Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series

Xavier Chantry
On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:40 PM, Franc Zabkar <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Does this help?
>
> What chipset does the bridge card use in my Seagate external hard drive?
> [206671]:
> http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=206671&NewLang=en
>

That does not seem to help much, compared to the amount of information
smartctl gave me.

For what I know, the "repaired" drives could have more
reallocated/pending sectors that the ones I sent, I have no way to
check.

I am afraid I will have to find a windows system to try drivedetect
and seatools there and see what I can get from them.
http://support.seagate.com/firmware/drive_config.html

cheers
Xavier

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Download Intel&#174; Parallel Studio Eval
Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs
proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance.
See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev
_______________________________________________
Smartmontools-support mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support
Loading...