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I have two external usb hard drive 500gb, which looked different from outside.
One is labelled Seagate Portable External Hard drive and was bought last December. The other is a Iomega Prestige Portable and was bought early january, that one came with a double usb cable. The first indication of failures were the Iomega one that started to make some weird noise, and later Gnome SMART tool reported it as deficient because of many bad sectors. Some days and a full format later, the disk has more than 300 reallocated sectors but at least none pending : 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 084 084 036 Pre-fail Always - 343 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 0 In parallel I started to check the other Seagate disk, and this one turned to have many bad sectors as well : 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 096 096 036 Pre-fail Always - 89 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 86 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 86 It turns out these two external drives have exactly the same model inside : Model Family: Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series Device Model: ST9500325AS Firmware Version: 0002BSM1 So now all my questions : 1) Can a lack of power cause bad sectors (instead of the disk simply refusing to work) ? >From http://www.harddiskhome.com/hard-disk-bad-sectors.html : "It could even be bad power from the power supply. " "The major reasons for the development of bad sector on hard drive is due to improper shutdown and voltage fluctuations which may be the general cause for the bad sectors." Does the double usb cable shipped with the Iomega indicate that this disk needs more power than the average ? This laptop often has many usb devices plugged and has very few usb port. So not only was just one usb connector plugged for each disk, but it was also often plugged through a usb hub (if that's the correct term). 2) Is it still likely that this device model and/or firmware version is bad , despite point 1) ? 3) Coud/Should I still try to get these two disks replaced , as they are only 2-3 months old, but have 2-3 years warranty ? Since the iomega drive was formatted and all its bad sectors reallocated, the Seatools windows tool does not report anything bad. It can only see that the short and long test pass. It does not seem to care about the high number of Reallocated_Sector or provide any way to even display it. The Seagate Drive instantly fails with short test, but I suspect a full format would also fix that. Is this what the technical support should expect me to do ? 4) What is a high number of bad / reallocated sectors where one should start worrying ? And doesn't any hard disk vendor mention this point in their warranty ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev _______________________________________________ Smartmontools-support mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support |
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it might work better after subscribing.
---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Xavier Chantry <[hidden email]> Date: Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 3:24 PM Subject: bad sectors with Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series To: [hidden email] I have two external usb hard drive 500gb, which looked different from outside. One is labelled Seagate Portable External Hard drive and was bought last December. The other is a Iomega Prestige Portable and was bought early january, that one came with a double usb cable. The first indication of failures were the Iomega one that started to make some weird noise, and later Gnome SMART tool reported it as deficient because of many bad sectors. Some days and a full format later, the disk has more than 300 reallocated sectors but at least none pending : 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 084 084 036 Pre-fail Always - 343 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 0 In parallel I started to check the other Seagate disk, and this one turned to have many bad sectors as well : 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 096 096 036 Pre-fail Always - 89 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 86 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 86 It turns out these two external drives have exactly the same model inside : Model Family: Seagate Momentus 5400.6 series Device Model: ST9500325AS Firmware Version: 0002BSM1 So now all my questions : 1) Can a lack of power cause bad sectors (instead of the disk simply refusing to work) ? >From http://www.harddiskhome.com/hard-disk-bad-sectors.html : "It could even be bad power from the power supply. " "The major reasons for the development of bad sector on hard drive is due to improper shutdown and voltage fluctuations which may be the general cause for the bad sectors." Does the double usb cable shipped with the Iomega indicate that this disk needs more power than the average ? This laptop often has many usb devices plugged and has very few usb port. So not only was just one usb connector plugged for each disk, but it was also often plugged through a usb hub (if that's the correct term). 2) Is it still likely that this device model and/or firmware version is bad , despite point 1) ? 3) Coud/Should I still try to get these two disks replaced , as they are only 2-3 months old, but have 2-3 years warranty ? Since the iomega drive was formatted and all its bad sectors reallocated, the Seatools windows tool does not report anything bad. It can only see that the short and long test pass. It does not seem to care about the high number of Reallocated_Sector or provide any way to even display it. The Seagate Drive instantly fails with short test, but I suspect a full format would also fix that. Is this what the technical support should expect me to do ? 4) What is a high number of bad / reallocated sectors where one should start worrying ? And doesn't any hard disk vendor mention this point in their warranty ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev _______________________________________________ Smartmontools-support mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support |
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In reply to this post by Xavier Chantry
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 4:24 PM, Xavier Chantry <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So now all my questions : > 1) Can a lack of power cause bad sectors (instead of the disk simply > refusing to work) ? Yes, in theory. I have heard from other sources that when a drive loses power in the middle of a write, it can create bad sectors despite the sectors still being physically OK. I've also seen some USB drives that repeatedly try to spin-up, but fail due to insufficient power. The USB hub is a suspect here. But a standard USB cable straight from your laptop should be enough to power 2.5" 5400RPM drives. > 3) Coud/Should I still try to get these two disks replaced , as they > are only 2-3 months old, but have 2-3 years warranty ? > The Seagate Drive instantly fails with short test, but I suspect a > full format would also fix that. Is this what the technical support > should expect me to do ? According to some Seagate support staff, their SMART attribute values are "encrypted" (yeah right!) and not enough to get a replacement drive. However, they do replace drives when the one of the SMART tests fail (the same tests that SeaTools will run). > 4) What is a high number of bad / reallocated sectors where one should > start worrying ? You should be worried if the value is consistently increasing. All drives where I have seen over 100 reallocated sectors have failed pretty soon afterwards. It helps to run SMART tests often. Regards, Marti ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev _______________________________________________ Smartmontools-support mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support |
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In reply to this post by Xavier Chantry
I would think that power fluctuations could cause a write operation
to be inhibited mid-stream. This would result in an unreadable sector which would then be marked as pending reallocation. However, on the next write, the sector would be retested and returned to service. The same could occur if the drive's shock sensor detects an excessive vibration. I would try to have both drives replaced under warranty, especially if the bad sector count increases regularly. As for your question regarding the number of allowable bad sectors, if you examine the SMART report, you will see that one drive's normalised attribute is already at 84, which means it has lost 16 points after developing 343 defects. It has another 48 points to go before it hits the threshold of 36. This means that SMART allows for a total of around 343 / 16 x 64 = 1372 reallocations before the drive is deemed to have failed. 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 084 084 036 343 A standard USB port is current limited to 500mA. A Seagate ST9500325AS drive requires about 850mA during spinup, and about 400mA thereafter (see page 11 of manual, page 17 of PDF). A Y-cable is therefore sometimes necessary to pick up power from two USB ports. If you need to use a USB hub, an externally powered one would be preferred to a port powered type. Momentus 5400.6 SATA Product Manual, Rev. E: http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/notebook/momentus/5400.6%20(Wyatt)/100528359e.pdf I believe your Firmware Version, 0002BSM1, is responsible for an excessive number of load/unload cycles. The associated clicking annoys many people. There is a Dell firmware update that fixes this behaviour, but it can't be applied via USB. -Franc Zabkar ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev _______________________________________________ Smartmontools-support mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support |
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On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 7:23 AM, Franc Zabkar <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I would think that power fluctuations could cause a write operation > to be inhibited mid-stream. This would result in an unreadable sector > which would then be marked as pending reallocation. However, on the > next write, the sector would be retested and returned to service. The > same could occur if the drive's shock sensor detects an excessive vibration. > > I would try to have both drives replaced under warranty, especially > if the bad sector count increases regularly. As for your question > regarding the number of allowable bad sectors, if you examine the > SMART report, you will see that one drive's normalised attribute is > already at 84, which means it has lost 16 points after developing 343 > defects. It has another 48 points to go before it hits the threshold > of 36. This means that SMART allows for a total of around 343 / 16 x > 64 = 1372 reallocations before the drive is deemed to have failed. > > 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 084 084 036 343 > > A standard USB port is current limited to 500mA. A Seagate > ST9500325AS drive requires about 850mA during spinup, and about 400mA > thereafter (see page 11 of manual, page 17 of PDF). A Y-cable is > therefore sometimes necessary to pick up power from two USB ports. If > you need to use a USB hub, an externally powered one would be > preferred to a port powered type. > > Momentus 5400.6 SATA Product Manual, Rev. E: > http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/notebook/momentus/5400.6%20(Wyatt)/100528359e.pdf > > I believe your Firmware Version, 0002BSM1, is responsible for an > excessive number of load/unload cycles. The associated clicking > annoys many people. There is a Dell firmware update that fixes this > behaviour, but it can't be applied via USB. > > -Franc Zabkar > > I saw Marti's answer, but I somehow managed to miss the very informative one from Franc. Thanks a lot to both of you for all these very interesting details. I actually could get both drivers replaced easily by contacting directly the hardware vendors (seagate and iomega) rather than the resellers. For seagate, I just mentioned that Seatools reported the drive as failing, and they accepted the replacement right away. For iomega, I showed the number of bad sectors and reallocated sectors, and that was enough. In both cases it went quite fast, and I would have received the two drives 3 weeks ago if I was there to receive them :) The seagate drive came with a single usb cable. The interesting part is that I cannot see anything about the seagate drive, smartctl just fails with : [xavier@xps-m1530 ~]$ smartctl -a -d scsi /dev/sdb smartctl 5.39.1 2010-01-28 r3054 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] (local build) Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net Device: Seagate Portable Version: 0130 scsiModePageOffset: response length too short, resp_len=4 offset=4 bd_len=0 >> Terminate command early due to bad response to IEC mode page A mandatory SMART command failed: exiting. To continue, add one or more '-T permissive' options. [xavier@xps-m1530 ~]$ smartctl -a -d scsi /dev/sdb -T permissive smartctl 5.39.1 2010-01-28 r3054 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] (local build) Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net Device: Seagate Portable Version: 0130 scsiModePageOffset: response length too short, resp_len=4 offset=4 bd_len=0 >> Terminate command early due to bad response to IEC mode page Error Counter logging not supported scsiModePageOffset: response length too short, resp_len=4 offset=4 bd_len=0 Device does not support Self Test logging So I have no idea what device model / firmware version it is. The Iomega came with no cable, I probably did the mistake to return the original Y one. On the disk, there is the following message : "This is a re-manufactured product. some of the components may have been replaced and/or repaired. This Product meets Iomega's quality Assurance standards." And that device reports it does not support SMART : [xavier@xps-m1530 ~]$ smartctl -a -d scsi /dev/sdb smartctl 5.39.1 2010-01-28 r3054 [x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu] (local build) Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net Device: ST950032 5AS Version: Serial number: 801130168383 Device type: disk Local Time is: Mon Apr 12 13:26:14 2010 CEST Device does not support SMART Error Counter logging not supported Device does not support Self Test logging So at least I can see that the iomega is still the same device model. The only status information I can see from both disks is SMART Health Status: OK Hopefully this time we won't have any data corruption/loss. I already told the user to completely stop using a hub for these usb powered drives. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev _______________________________________________ Smartmontools-support mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support |
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Does this help?
What chipset does the bridge card use in my Seagate external hard drive? [206671]: http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=206671&NewLang=en Regards, Franc ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev _______________________________________________ Smartmontools-support mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support |
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On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 11:40 PM, Franc Zabkar <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Does this help? > > What chipset does the bridge card use in my Seagate external hard drive? > [206671]: > http://seagate.custkb.com/seagate/crm/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=206671&NewLang=en > That does not seem to help much, compared to the amount of information smartctl gave me. For what I know, the "repaired" drives could have more reallocated/pending sectors that the ones I sent, I have no way to check. I am afraid I will have to find a windows system to try drivedetect and seatools there and see what I can get from them. http://support.seagate.com/firmware/drive_config.html cheers Xavier ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Download Intel® Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev _______________________________________________ Smartmontools-support mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/smartmontools-support |
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